wordsworn: My clockwork heart counts the seconds; I have no time for anyone but myself. (Default)
★ Writing Journal for Alory Shannon ★ ([personal profile] wordsworn) wrote2011-07-12 04:25 am

"Growing Pains" - Loki + Thor (AU movie!Marvelverse) - {Chapter VIII}


Link to this cross-posted in the comments of Round 1 @ [livejournal.com profile] norsekink.

{ .VIII. } {In Which Odin Is Once Again An A+ Father (Seriously!) and Thor Learns An Important Lesson, Maybe}

- ♦ ♈ ♦ -

Loki comes to fairly quickly, pain jolting him awake as Thor peels a section of his shredded leathers away from his injuries. They’re only about halfway down the mountain, but the thick, wet smear of blood slicked down one side of Thor’s armour must’ve convinced him that Loki required immediate attention. Thor doesn’t know anything of magic, and he is no healer, but he can at least bind up wounds if necessary.

Loki’s mouth feels dry, both his head and his eyelids seem far too heavy, and it takes him a minute to remember how to make his mouth move and form the right sounds to speak.


His voice comes out a soft rasp, as if he’d been shouting or screaming, and only after considering that for another long minute does he recall what had happened: that as that turbulent rush of magic had shrieked all around them, blisteringly hot energy just inches away trying to sear its way through the shield he’d made of his own magic, fear had fled him entirely, his mouth spreading wide in a manic grin. And as he’d loosed his magic, finally giving into it fully for once, he’d thrown his head back…and laughed, howling with a wild, fierce sort of joy ‘til his throat was raw from the heat and the strain, the sound of it completely lost, swallowed up by the roar of the magic exploding all around them.

Quietly as he’d spoken, Thor hears him. For once, he’s listening.

“Loki.” There’s an endless sea of relief in that single word; it crashes over Loki and nearly seems to choke Thor, judging by the way his mouth hangs open for a silent moment before he finds his voice again. “Brother, I feared that you were…that you would not wake up.”

Loki blinks a little, slowly and blearily, certain that his eyes must be playing tricks on him, because he can’t truly be seeing what he thinks he’s seeing. For the Thor he sees before him looks frightened, pale beneath soot and scratches and splotches of black dragon’s blood, and he sounds even worse, concerned but also honestly and deeply shaken.

And all at the thought of losing Loki for good.

Odin’s words from countless long years ago suddenly echo in his ears:

…But he loves you, Loki. A brotherly bond is not one easily broken…

Loki swallows hard, wavering over the decision, but it’s hard to feel any sort of dread or apprehension right now; he’s numb from adrenaline, from shock and from blood loss, and seeing that unabashedly anxious look still lingering on his brother’s face has stripped him of any remaining hesitance.

… and the strength and depth of his devotion is such that I believe there will come a time…

“…Thor…” He has to swallow again, begin again, because that isn’t how he wants to start. Names are too impersonal, they show no bond and are freely used by all, and he and Thor are so much closer than that.

…when you will be able tell Thor of this without fear of any negative repercussions—

“…Brother.” Thor will be angry, of course, because that’s generally his reaction to unexpected things, but he won’t simply leave Loki behind to die. Not after a battle like that, not after all Loki has done on this quest alone, and how much Thor must know he owes him. “There’s…there’s something I—”

But the moment of opportunity has passed; already Thor is shaking off that fear, slipping back into his usual overconfidence and inconsiderate charisma. “We shall talk later, Brother, I swear it, but I sense that we must not linger here.” He straightens as he finishes tying off the last of the bandages. “We must have your wounds seen to, and despite your negotiations, I fear that the Dark Elves grow near.”

Loki coughs out a soft chuckle. “That is something you need not fear, Brother.” He’s having trouble moving his right arm (broken, he remembers with a grimace as another twinge of pain jolts up the limb), so it proves rather difficult to reach into the pouch on his left hip and fish out the item he’d filched from Malekith’s treasury for just this purpose. “Sometimes a bit of thievery is indispensible.”

Thor blinks at the folded item resting in Loki’s palm, but before he can ask what it is and how in the Nine Realms it’s supposed to help them, Loki explains.

“It’s a magical boat forged by the Dark Elves. A true treasure, one-of-a-kind. It can sail over land or through the air as well as by sea, and though large enough to hold a host of warriors, their horses, and all their equipment, it folds up, like so, small enough to fit in a pocket or pouch. I believe they had named it Skidbladnir.”

It’s fairly difficult to really and truly impress Thor to the point of speechlessness. Loki had seen it the first time he’d used magic in front of Thor (naught but a few simple pranks during a feast, but extraordinary in the eyes of a magic-less child nonetheless), as well as on that day not so long ago when Loki had nearly been killed on the sparring grounds, and also when Odin had first gifted Thor with possession of Mjöllnir. This doesn’t carry the same sort of weight as any of those other things, but considering Loki’s just given him a quick and easy way out of a situation that Thor was beginning to despair of escaping at all, it’s enough to merit significant admiration.

“Will you be Telling Father about this, Brother?” Loki asks with a wan smile. Thor returns the expression, though his smile is wide as ever, and full of mirth and relief. For if Loki can act like this, still thinking at least two steps ahead and speaking with the same snap and eternal dry wit as always, he must be all right.

“Of course.” He gently takes the folded boat from Loki’s hand and looks it over with wonder before turning that radiant smile back on his younger brother. “One must give credit where credit is due, and this theft was both a courageous and clever one.”

Loki instructs Thor on how to unfold Skidbladnir, which does indeed prove exceptionally roomy despite its once-compact size; that done, it doesn’t take much to convince his brother that to leave all that treasure behind for the Dark Elves would be a shame, not to mention a waste of a good quest, and since Volstagg and Hogun aren’t in critical condition, there’s nothing to stop them from taking home a tidy sum for their trouble. Thor agrees, and with the aid of Sif and Fandral, a goodly amount of treasure is soon stowed aboard. Loki leans against the bulkhead, watching as they load up and forcing himself to stay awake for a while longer, because he hasn’t forgotten the details of the deal he’d made with Malekith.

So once Skidbladnir has taken on all the treasure it can comfortably hold and moves off, sailing up through the air towards Asgard, Loki sits up a little straighter. Turning back with a slight wince, he leans over the side of the ship and whispers a spell (normally he doesn’t have to speak aloud, but right now he’s edging on total exhaustion, and saying and hearing the words helps him focus), then watches with satisfaction as a large portion of the remains of Andvari’s vault shudders and cracks. Gold and priceless jewels sparkle like snow in the sunlight as the rock beneath them crumbles and gives way, pouring them into the molten inferno that swallowed their possessor, and stone rains down as what’s left of the cave collapses. Loki leaves perhaps half of what remains of the dragon’s hoard intact, which amounts to about one-fourth of the treasure, total. It’s still a lot--a more than satisfactory weregild for the Dark Elves, he thinks with a satisfied smirk, especially since they have no way of knowing the hoard’s original size, and will most likely assume that any missing gold must have fallen into the volcano when the cave was destroyed.

And now that the final loose end has been tied off, Loki slumps against the bulkhead, letting the oncoming waves of dizzying darkness wash over him and drag him under into a welcome, pain-free oblivion.

- ♦ ♈ ♦ -

They receive a hero’s welcome on their return to Asgard. The sight of Asgard’s greatest warrior and his friends returning victorious from a Grand Quest is not so uncommon, but this homecoming, on a magical ship filled with gold, jewels, and all sorts of treasure, is impressive even for Thor. People going about their everyday lives stare upwards openmouthed, then run along behind the ship, following it on foot as it heads straight for the Royal Palace.

There, the three more seriously injured members of the party are snatched up almost at once by members of the Royal Guard, who hastily carry (or in Volstagg’s case, escort and support) them to the Healing Room. Initially Thor shows a bit of reluctance at letting the still-unconscious Loki out of his sight, but the already-swelling crowd is peppering the remaining adventurers with questions, calling to hear the tale, and Thor can’t resist giving into their clamour. Soon his brother is well out of mind; he’s far too preoccupied with helping to unload—and showing off—the treasure, as well as joining in Fandral’s dramatic retelling of their adventure, which somehow ends up downplaying Loki’s role and overemphasizing all of the others. Sif’s sideways glances at the two are less than impressed, perhaps even a little disgusted, but she doesn’t contradict them, and neither Thor nor Fandral notices her silent disapproval, or her equally silent departure.

Odin’s reaction to all of this is perhaps somewhat atypical. When he learns of his sons’ return, and moreover the possibly serious condition of the younger, the King of Asgard abstains from going to meet Thor, immediately heading to the Healing Room instead. For a battle-hardened warrior like the All-father, Loki’s wounds are not truly so bad to look upon—he’s seen worse, ever so much worse, and has personally experienced worse as well. But seeing his son in such dire shape makes it harder somehow, for it is something he had hoped never to see, even if he’d always known that such a hope was one doomed from the start for a number of reasons.

Frigga is there already, tenderly wiping the worst of the dirt from Loki’s face with a damp cloth now that his wounds have been seen to. As Odin enters, she’s murmuring a gently soothing sort of motherly nothing into Loki’s ear, drawing the faintest of smiles from her younger son, the only indication that he’s conscious. Asgard’s queen looks up and over at her lord husband with an anxious sort of strain in her own smile as he crosses the room, her eyes saying it all.

He is badly hurt, but he will live.

Odin breathes a little easier at that, feeling a great deal better about several things, though there’s still a trace of sadness and not-quite-guilt; it is a costly lesson, and yet even so there are no guarantees that Thor will actually learn it. If his behaviour thus far is anything to judge by, he will miss it entirely unless it’s shoved in his face.

“Leave us. I would speak to my son alone.”

Frigga meets his eye, a subtle question on her face, then inclines her head minutely and follows the healers and servants out, drawing the ornate double-doors shut behind them.

The instant those doors swing to, Loki wearily eases his eyes open. It seems to take him a moment to focus them, but when he sees Odin sitting beside him, he’s fully alert in an instant. “Father!” he gasps, struggling to push himself up on his elbows; he doesn’t quite manage it, his face contorting as he gasps again, this time in pain, and he’s forced to lie back and stay still. “I saved him, Father,” he says, a little breathless in his eagerness to share what he sees as a triumph worthy of both pride and praise. “I protected Thor in more ways than he knows, and—Father, did I do well?” Perhaps suddenly fearful of the answer, Loki doesn’t give Odin the chance to give one, words spilling out of his mouth in a feverish rush. “I would have done it, Father. I could have. I could have sacrificed myself for him, died a hero’s death, and proven my loyalty once and for all.”

There’s a sort of desperation in his voice, a fanatic or maybe more frantic fire burning in his eyes as he looks up at Odin searchingly, clearly aching for approval, or failing that, at least a lack of reproof.

But the All-father just shakes his head in response. “No, Loki,” he says gently. Loki’s face twists with anguish before going unnaturally blank and reserved, though his lips are trembling and it’s plainly a mask that’s wavering on the edge of breaking, until Odin continues with what he was saying. “You never had to prove anything, for I have never doubted you. That aside, you are too young yet to speak of dying, be it a hero’s death or any other; and in any case, I for one am exceedingly glad that it didn’t come to that, my son.”

Finding himself named thus so easily, without the barest hint of a pause even for effect, much less due to true hesitance, is nothing new--it’s fairly common, in fact. But after all he’s been through over the past few days, it’s a much-needed reassurance, as is the way Odin is smiling down on him with what is unmistakably deep paternal love and equally-deep fatherly pride…alongside relief at the return of not one but two prodigal sons. And at that last a flood of tears wells up in the prince’s eyes, though only two slip free, sliding from the corners of Loki’s tightly-shut eyes and trickling down across his temples to disappear into his hair, cutting twin icy trails through the traces of soot still darkening his skin.

In reply, Odin’s right hand settles lightly on Loki’s head, gently brushing back his hair; his left grips Loki’s shoulder, all the fear and anxiety he’d felt at the idea of losing his younger son telegraphed clearly through those grasping fingers.

Loki draws and releases a soft, shaky breath, and though his eyes remain closed, his hand finds its way up and over to the All-father’s, closes tightly around it, and squeezes and squeezes until bones nearly creak in protest and the darkness rises to swallow him up again.

- ♦ ♈ ♦ -

When Thor enters to the Healing Room nearly an hour later, Odin has moved to one of the long, thin windows at the far end of the chamber. He doesn’t acknowledge his older son’s arrival, doesn’t turn away from the view of the sun setting over the golden city, not until after Thor has come to stand at his sleeping brother’s bedside.

“What right have you to be here?” The All-father’s voice is ominously low and level, each word bitten out with a careful, purposeful ponderousness. There’s a slow-building anger there, looming like storm-clouds on the horizon: distant, but clearly visible and threatening nonetheless, promising of heavy rain.

Thor matches his hostility in tone as well as body language, fists clenching at his sides as he turns to face his father, squaring off just as he would for a fight in the training hall. “As much right as you. He is my brother.”

After a moment’s pause Odin looks ‘round at the warrior-prince, his gaze keen and considering, almost as if to say and if he were not? What then?

But Thor fails completely at catching the true meaning of that look, seeing it only as it is on the surface: a hard stare that leaves him feeling challenged, weighed, and found lacking--not a feeling that he is at all used to.

Aloud Odin says instead, “Yes, he is. And as his elder brother, you should consider his well-being more carefully.”

“I have, and I do,” Thor replies stoutly. He’s feeling rather full of himself now after hearing Fandral telling and retelling the tale of this latest quest, and he’s determined not to be placed on the defensive. “I strove to protect him as best I could on this venture, just as I always have. I did nothing differently, Father, and overall, I would consider the quest a success. We all came back alive, and with a considerable amount of treasure. You cannot fault me for Loki’s physical weakness.”


Thor’s ire rises at the insult, but even he is fleetingly daunted by the sight of his father stalking towards him, so he holds his tongue as the King of Asgard closes the distance between them.

“Loki--your brother--loves you dearly, and although his protests and attempts at persuasion would be mighty indeed, in the end he would follow you into Niflheim and beyond if you gave the word. He has always behaved thus.” Odin’s eye darkens dangerously, his words a reproving growl as he comes to stop a mere foot from his son. “And you know this full well.”

Thor bristles, but he doesn’t deny it. He might never plan to take advantage of something like that, but he knew it to be true nonetheless. “This was Svartalfheim, Father, not Niflheim—”

“And yet still your brother went along, and was grievously injured because of you—your pride, your recklessness, your greedy hunger for honour, glory, and adventure!”

Thor starts to speak, and is once again cut off as Odin jabs a finger at him.

“You may have told yourself that you were doing this for Loki, that this quest was for the betterment of your brother—” That accusing finger swings aside to point at the battered, lifeless-looking body of Asgard’s younger prince. “—But how can that be true when he ended up like this?”

The older prince grits his teeth in obvious, helpless fury, but he turns his face away from his brother’s unconscious form, unable to bear looking at him long. Seeing that pale, almost-too-slim form bleeding through his newly-changed bandages strikes an unpleasant chord deep within the god of thunder; it’s hard to claim that he’d been looking out for Loki when his younger brother is so badly wounded. A tendril of uncertainty, of guilt, uncurls inside him, a flicker of recall reminding him of the pang of fear and concern he’d felt on the mountain when he’d first realised just how badly Loki was bleeding, and he takes a moment to wonder. Had he really done all he could to protect Loki? Perhaps…perhaps if he had just…

But Odin isn’t done with Thor yet.

“Still, Fortune smiled on you, giving you so devoted and talented a brother. For there is no doubt in my mind that had Loki not gone, you and your friends would have been slain by the dragon, rather than the reverse. And all because you were fool enough to go looking for trouble—”

“BUT YOU LET ME GO!” Thor bursts out, anger flaring quicker than a flash of lightning.

Odin’s single eye is hard, and though it’s obvious that he is equally, if not more enraged than Thor, he holds his emotions in check and remains outwardly calm. “And what of it? You are no longer a boy! You are a man, and one day you will be king! I am your father, but I cannot make all your decisions for you. And in this instance, even had I refused to let you go, you would have gone anyway, would you not?”

Thor’s jaw clenches, but he can’t say anything to that, because all of it is true.

For a long moment, the only sound Thor can hear is the blood pounding in his ears…and Loki’s ragged breathing. And the latter, coupled with the fact that he hasn’t spoken to Loki, hasn’t seen him fully conscious since that short conversation on the ruined mountain, is what finally forces Thor to see the reality of the situation.

His father is right. What’s more, his father is right about everything. Originally Thor’s goal had truly been to help Loki, but somewhere along the way, his own desire for adventure and a good fight had eclipsed that goal, blocking out the importance of Loki’s advice and protests about the quest. Thor hadn’t really listened, simply assuming that his fighting prowess would be enough to get them out of any difficult situations they happened to find themselves in. Instead, Loki had saved them all not once, but twice—the first time via diplomacy, the second with magic, two things that Thor has little to no skill with—and neither of those problems could have been resolved in a satisfactory manner with even a thousand swings of Thor’s hammer.

He had taken his brother--all his friends, really--for granted, and had unnecessarily endangered their lives for no reason other than the fact that he’d been bored and spoiling for a fight. He hadn’t even cared to consider what sort of effect his actions could have, or what sort of consequences he might incur…consequences that would affect others, not simply himself.

He’d been brash. He’d been arrogant. And he’d been selfish--unbearably so. And it had nearly cost his brother his life…which meant it had nearly cost him his brother.

And Thor knows from the innermost depths of his warrior’s heart that there is no fight, no adventure, no treasure in all of the Nine Realms that is worth that price.

Perhaps sensing the beginnings of a drastic shift in Thor’s mentality, Odin takes pity on his eldest, his tone and expression softening a fraction, just enough for his words to sound like the advice they are meant to be rather than an outright admonishment. “A king’s duty is to do what is best for his people, which means he will avoid war if at all possible. But if war is unavoidable, then he must embrace it, for the good of those who look to him for guidance.” He starts for the doors, but as he passes by, his hand settles on Thor’s shoulder. Though Thor can’t feel the warmth or the pressure through his armour, he catches the movement in his peripheral vision, and he can feel the weight of that hand; brief as it is, the gesture is much appreciated. “Your every action should be prefaced with these thoughts: Who am I truly doing this for? Who stands to gain? Who stands to lose? And what will those gains and loses be?”

Thor remains where he is long after the sound of the doors closing and his father’s footsteps fade away, his broad, muscular frame gone as still as a statue as he gazes intently on the pallid, motionless form of the beloved brother he’d come so very close to losing. And as he stands and stares, Thor does something that would surprise Loki, were he awake to see it:

He puts aside any interest in weapons, combat, his friends, and any sort of adventure, lets his eyes fall half-closed, bows his head consideringly…and thinks. Long, hard, and slowly, but deep—deeper than the farthest-reaching roots of Yggdrasil.

- ♦ ♈ ♦ -

{Chapter IX}
ext_13205: (Loki)

[identity profile] korilian.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 09:43 pm (UTC)(link)
HWARRR at him Odin! I think Thor desperately needed some A+ parenting. (and so does Fandral Grrr).

And Loki got some desperately needed cuddles (in a manner of speaking) and appreciation. ♥

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 02:51 am (UTC)(link)
Hah, yeah, the Thor vs. Loki score wouldn't be nearly so lopsided in this AU-verse! Too bad Loki wasn't awake to see Thor get chewed out or was he...X'D

Like a significant portion of this fandom, I spent SO much of that movie going "WILL SOMEONE PLEASE GIVE LOKI A HUG ALREADY?" B'| So any excuse I have to write him receiving those hugs...

[identity profile] salvamisandwich.livejournal.com 2011-07-12 11:02 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh my gaaawwwwwd, awesome! It's just- *flail* awesome. I cannot even. And your tags are just hilarious.

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 01:40 am (UTC)(link)
Thanks! Glad you're still enjoying it. :]

And OH yeah, I plead guilty to having Way Too Much Fun with my tags.

[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 12:13 am (UTC)(link)
I think this is the first time I have almost liked Odin in...anything, really, so congratulations on that!

I am very intrigued by Sif and her reactions in this chapter, and I really hope we see more of her.

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 02:22 am (UTC)(link)
I take that as quite the compliment, thank you. :] Horridly frustrating as certain aspects of his character still were, I rather liked Odin in the movie, though that's probably due entirely to Anthony Hopkins. I try to be more annoyed with him, but all I can see and hear is HWARRRR!! and it's just no good.

That part...actually sort of surprised me a little when I wrote it, because it wasn't in my outline at all. Dratted characters doing whatever they please. I'll have to work that into things of course, but this fic is more focused on the Thor + Loki brotherly BFF-ness, so it's not going to be anything too big or pairing-ish. But~ I'm also working on a one-shot Loki/Sif (...or Sif/Loki? Little hard to tell with this one...) fic for another KM prompt too, so maybe that'll make it up to you a bit? ;D

[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 02:28 am (UTC)(link)
Ha ha WELL. I have been hating on Odin since long before I even knew Marvel had made a Norse-myth based comic, so. That is not likely to change at this point! Movie!Odin is pretty awful all on his own, though, I feel.

I don't necessarily want anything pairing-wise in this fic! (Lol this is just my only Thor movie icon.) I mean, I wouldn't object if it showed up, but really I am just interested in seeing Sif interact with people, and also in seeing Loki interact with Thor's friends as kind of a secondary thing to the primary relationship between Thor and Loki.

(But, uh, when you do write that pairing fic I will probably be all over it!)
Edited 2011-07-13 02:28 (UTC)

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 03:19 am (UTC)(link)
Heh, interesting. I typically find Thor more difficult to like in the original myths, though Odin certainly does have his moments as well. PLENTY of them. But yeah, showing favouritism obviously enough that your kid develops a complex about it is some serious fail!parenting. And that's only scratching the surface. =\ It does an excellent job of that, doesn't it? Even if...it's sort of another instance of fail!parenting...

Sif & the W3 haven't played much of a role in this one, you're right. It's my first real Thor-fic, and somehow it just didn't work into things this time, which is a shame because they're a lot of fun. Something to keep in mind for next time, since this fic's pretty near done anyway (I think).

(It's about...1/3 done now--I work on that when I need a break from thinking about this one--and it'll def. be posted here when I'm done with it. :3 It'll be my first Thor smut-fic, lmao.)

oh god your icon

[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 03:31 am (UTC)(link)
Myth!Thor is...hmmm. I take issue with a lot of what he does, but at his core he's a pretty likable guy. The movie took that and really ran with it, I think. Odin, though, is all "I steal babies and teach them to hate themselves!" :(

"Next time" are words I like the sound of. (Also smut sound totally okay with me!)

IS IT NOT TERRIBLE AND BEAUTIFUL? X'D It made me laugh so hard, I had to swipe it.

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 03:55 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, I guess I've just never really been a fan of the Big Strong Not-So-Smart Guy With A Temper type. ...I like the more clever ones, lol. Kicking people onto funeral pyres, forcing people to become slaves for one stupid but understandable mistake, stealing cauldrons and being an all-around horrible house guest...yeah, sort of a douche, lol. I mean, at least Loki is a jerk and causes trouble knowingly, with the intent of being a jerk and causing trouble. With Thor, there is no premeditated asshattery, it's just how he rolls. X'D

And yeah, from what I remember, Odin does a fair amount of manipulating, doesn't he? And he is definitely a right bastard, though his blood-brothers relationship with Loki in the myths rather than the father-son dynamic we get in the movie and comics makes that particular relationship markedly different. Doesn't do much to improve the overall quality of the relationship, though. =\

Haha, aww, thanks! :] (With this prompt, it's unavoidable, lol.)

Imma whip out all my ridiculous Star Wars icons now I guess

[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 04:04 am (UTC)(link)
Yeeeeeah... See, I try to keep the original context and understanding of the myths in the back of my mind, and balance it out with some understanding of how the gods were perceived by their worshipers, but at the end of the day...I'm still left thinking they're mostly douches. :( Except for Loki (ironically), whose jerkishness I find for the most part more understandable. (And also I think he's actually a lot less of a jerk than pop culture makes him out to be, but then I also have a marked tendency to sympathize with Jotun interests, so.)

Odin and Loki's bloodbrotherhood is creepy in it's own way, although possibly less so than movie!Odin's plan of stealing a kid and teaching him to hate himself. But yeah, their relationship just...never seemed balanced to me. They're supposed to be brothers, but with the exception of the story about Otter's ransom (and possibly the creation story, if you think Loki and Lodur are one and the same), Loki tends to act more as Odin's servant/messenger/whipping boy than his brother. It's easy to see what Odin gets out of the relationship, and hard to see what Loki gets (unless you're of the opinion that "getting" to be numbered among the Aesir is a big enough thing on it's own, but I find that problematic itself, so!).

Um, wow, sorry for totally derailing your comments with discussion of Norse myth! It is a problem I have sometimes. :(

I see nothing at all wrong with that! + I STARTED IT so you can blame me. :]

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 04:36 am (UTC)(link)
...I...agree with that, actually. I've not talked with many people about Norse myths because I tend to get strange looks, or else that wonderful smile/nod combination, so I don't know what most people think RE: this, but I just...the gods are SUCH jerks to Loki SO MUCH OF THE TIME, I can't see how they'd be AT ALL surprised that he'd hate them and plot to bring about their downfall. He brings them amazing stuff that he did a little trickery to get, and in return...Thor chases him down and drags him back so Grumpy can sew his mouth shut for outsmarting him? And then they all laugh and party while Loki runs off in pain? WOW, WAY TO BE, GUYS. Because that is TOTALLY how you want to treat a super-powerful, fiercely-intelligent sorcerer who might well betray you all someday.

Yeah, myth!Loki gets a raw deal lots of the time. Like, giving Sleiphnir to Odin after how much of a jerk he was, why? I mean, sure, pretty ace sucking up, but still.

...I sort of wondered if movie!Odin had originally intended to love Loki just as much as Thor, but found over time that he couldn't quite manage it. That the hate and distrust and overall hostility he felt towards the Frost Giants was too strong for him to get past it entirely. That wouldn't make it better, really, but it would make it just slightly more understandable, I guess.

Not a problem at all, and no apologies necessary! Being able to have discussions without worrying about taking up those last couple hundred comment-spaces is one of main reasons I switched to posting the fic this way, after all. :D

here is a myth!Loki icon to shake things up

[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 04:56 am (UTC)(link)
Oh goodness. I have so many feelings about Norse myth that I took to writing fic. It was kind of an odd by-product of seeing the film: I came back wanting to write myth!fic rather than film!fic. I'd always kind of wanted to write myth fic, but after the movie came out I thought people might actually read it? So I end up writing fic about Loki and Sigyn and Sleipnir and Loki's slowly building but hidden anger about the fact that Odin STEALS ALL OF HIS KIDS. (Which: apparently there is some myth!canon for baby thief Odin in the movie!)

When I was a kid, the first time I encountered Norse mythology, I was totally rooting for Loki all the way, and when the story got to Ragnarok I was vaguely aware that I was supposed to find it tragic and horrifying and just generally bad news, but mostly I was thinking, "Aw yes, Loki and the Giants finally get their own." (Misaimed Fandom to the max, I suppose?) Which maybe should tell you everything about me as a person?

That the hate and distrust and overall hostility he felt towards the Frost Giants was too strong for him to get past it entirely.

I could definitely buy this, and it does make him a little understandable in that respect, but the part I just can't wrap my head around is, DUDE YOU DON'T GO AROUND STEALING KIDS. THAT SHIT IS NOT ON. (I do have some vague knowledge that in the comics Loki was left to die as a runt or some such, but there's nothing to indicate that in the movie, and the whole flashback scene and Odin's general fail at telling the truth leaves me extremely disinclined to believe his viewpoint on any of this, so!)
Edited 2011-07-13 04:56 (UTC)
ext_13205: (Loki)

Re: here is a myth!Loki icon to shake things up

[identity profile] korilian.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 01:04 pm (UTC)(link)
I have but one thing to add to this discussion: And that is this picture (http://somewhataskew.tumblr.com/post/7445089832/while-reading-walt-simonson-thor).

I totally agree with your guy's btw. I used to read this kids book on Norse mythology and always ended up cheering Loki on when he finally brought Ragnarok down on them. Those ass hats totally had it coming. :)

Re: here is a myth!Loki icon to shake things up

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 03:04 pm (UTC)(link)
...Th-that picture THAT PICTURE AL:DKSF;ljas;dlj D8 D8 D8

If you heard a noise just now

that was the sound of several of my heartstrings snapping ;~;

Edited 2011-07-13 15:05 (UTC)

Re: here is a myth!Loki icon to shake things up

[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 03:55 pm (UTC)(link)
Ugggh, that scan. :( Fuck you, Odin. Worst father, worst human being.

I have this burning desire to see Sigyn participate in Ragnarok and shock her family by joining the Jotun side, and being a badass. She deserves some revenge for her kids.

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 04:06 pm (UTC)(link)
And in more recent comics, we have this (http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l550/alory_shannon4/Loki%20and%20Hiddles%20Stuffs%208D/Comic%20Book%20things/Notquitethewarmestwelcome.jpg). Which isn't quite as bad, but I have the BIGGEST weakness for current-canon's kid!Loki, so this made me want to stomp around making dinosaur noises. ...Though what Thor says in that last bubble is somewhat mollifying--even he, the favourite, can only see Odin as a "horrible, unlovable old man". B]


[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 04:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Uggggggh, no, that one is actually worse! Straight up brutal verbal abuse of a small child. ODIN YOU ARE A REPREHENSIBLE HUMAN BEING. Thor your assessment of your father is completely accurate. :(

Weeeelll, I still have to get to the actual Ragnarok part, but I did write a lead up to it in which Sigyn is a badass here (http://fialleril.livejournal.com/218976.html).

Re: here is a myth!Loki icon to shake things up

[identity profile] marlinainverse.livejournal.com 2011-07-31 06:43 am (UTC)(link)
Sorry, just had to post. Because one of the most life-long arguements I've EVER had with my best friend is on just that topic. *flails*.

If someone tied down my kid and stuck a sword through his mouth for all eternity?

The End of the World? It WOULD be happening for them. And that's not getting into what they did to the rest of the kids.

(Also, I have a soft spot for the idea that (besides poetic justice for his own children) Loki's real goal in killing Baldur was that Hel had a *little* crush on him :P.)

And I don't think ANY of the other wives would have stayed for eternity in that cave. I mean, at that point she really could have just left him, and she DIDN'T. Which says something about their relationship XD.

If you're interested, Eric Flint and David Freer have a pretty amazing story that involves a mostly!Good Loki, Pyramid Power. Also, you get a seriously cool Out for Revenge Sigyn XD. After what they did to Nagi, she's going to stand by her man and if taking that revenge means Ragnarok, so be it. Favorite conversation:

Thrud blinked. "I love you too, Uncle Fox. But I'm grown up now. I can look after myself."
"Its a matter of opinion," said loki, raising an eyebrow.
"Coming from you, who never thinks of consequences until its too late, that's a bit rich."
Loki chuckled. "I'm an experienced expert on bad decisions. Besides, I was always better at looking after others than myself."

(also? Thor is Jormungand's drinking buddy, and on their side XD).

Alas, I have none. Which means I have to resort to kitten icons.

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 03:57 pm (UTC)(link)
...Sounds like I will def. have to go looking for this fic, and soon. It's posted online, yes?

LOL baby-thief. ...That really shouldn't be funny should it, I'm a terrible person. Well, in the comics, Odin killed Loki's father, and it was just How Things Were Done that you took in the child if you were responsible for orphaning them, even if it was the child of an enemy. In the movie, with Laufey still being alive...yeah, that doesn't quite fly, though if the Frost Giants were destroyed so badly that it became 'survival of the fittest'..then Odin did save Loki's life by taking him. But yeah, whether he'd actually been abandoned, or if Odin was lying about that...could go either way. Maybe deleted scenes when the DVD comes out will make it more clear/believable, though I rather thought movie!Odin's intentions did seem to be well-intentioned at least, even if they didn't work out right at all.

Re: Alas, I have none. Which means I have to resort to kitten icons.

[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 04:08 pm (UTC)(link)
The fic is here at my LJ (http://fialleril.livejournal.com/223191.html#cutid1), and all my other Norse myth fics are listed here (http://fialleril.livejournal.com/41817.html#cutid2). :)

See, I just find Odin's claims re: Loki and his intentions really hard to believe, because...he says he wanted to create true peace between Asgard and Jotunheim through Loki, but it is really unclear to me how he thought this would be possible if LITERALLY NO ONE KNOWS THAT LOKI IS A JOTUN. Loki doesn't know. The whole of Asgard doesn't know. Thor doesn't know. None of the Jotnar know. Laufey probably thinks his son is dead. Everyone in Asgard, INCLUDING LOKI, thinks (and is still being raised to think) that the Jotnar are inhuman monsters. Jotunheim is decimated, its lifeblood (in the form of the Casket) sitting in a vault in Asgard like a common war trophy, and the "peace" between Asgard and Jotunheim at the beginning of the film seems to be more a case of the Jotnar just despairing and giving up in the face of a much greater force.

tl;dr: I just cannot figure out how Odin thought that raising a Jotun baby unaware of his true heritage and teaching him to hate himself was somehow going to bring about lasting peace. Almost the only thing I can think of is that maybe he intended to set Loki up as a puppet ruler of Jotunheim at some point in the future, which is squicky on so many levels.

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 04:42 pm (UTC)(link)
\o/ AWESOME. Thanks! /bookmarks~

Yeah, there are SO many problems with what Odin did, I can't see how he planned to fix things either. He really should've told Loki what was up right from the off which is why I couldn't resist filling this prompt in the first place, haha. There really is no way to justify NOT telling him. Part of me tries to say, well maybe he wanted Thor to learn that they aren't monsters by raising them together, and change his mind that way, but...that is not nearly compelling enough. And if he wanted to show people that HEY THEY ARE JUST LIKE US RLY...most of Asgard seems like it holds Loki at arm's length even before they know anything about him, so that doesn't fly either THERE IS NO GOOD REASON except the (rather suspect) claim of saving Loki's life IF IF IF he was really abandoned rather than accidentally lost ODIN WHAT THE HELL WERE YOU DOING B|

& tl;dr right back atcha, lmao.

...All I can think is...maybe he wanted to raise Loki to be more "civilized" (which is a JOKE when you compare Thor, Mud-Brawler, Table-Flipper, Devourer of Poptarts & Smasher of Coffee Mugs, with the almost overly-polite and refined-seeming Loki), then would give Loki the Casket to take back to Jotunheim When The Time Was Right (wtf THAT means) so he could restore it and rule? But that does still leave the puppet-ruler problem, plus the mistreatment Loki received from the Asgardians, subtle as it was at first, would NOT really help with the whole keeping-the-peace thing. And how could Odin think Loki WOULDN'T flip out over finding out that he was a "monster"?


[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 04:57 pm (UTC)(link)
I think that if Odin were a semi-decent human being, who had still for some reason stolen a baby but was at least determined to attempt to be decent in raising him, he would have done four main things:

1) He would have told all of Asgard, upfront, that Loki was a Jotun, and that he was his son, and he would have told both Thor and Loki as they grew, and Loki would have grown up in the knowledge of who and what he was.

2) He would have made immediate, ongoing, and explicit efforts to improve the reputation of Frost Giants in Asgard, to foster cultural understanding, and to root out and examine privilege. Loki and Thor grow up hating and fearing the Jotun "monsters" in canon because ODIN ALLOWS THAT TO HAPPEN. If he actually gave a shit, he would have started working to counteract that idea long before Loki was old enough to realize it was an attitude that existed.

3) If he intended to somehow use Loki to foster peace, he would have formed some kind of communication with Jotunheim, and when Loki was old enough he would at the very least have let Loki go to Jotunheim and learn about his culture. (This one is tricky because, so long as Laufey is still alive, I can't see why Odin would even have kept Loki if he were indeed a decent human being. But.)

4) He would not have played favorites.

Since he fails, and fails hard, on all four counts, I'm really not sure where he was going with this scheme.

(Also also, my thoughts on how Odin would have acted if he were actually a decent human being and genuinely interested in peace with Jotunheim are here (http://fialleril.livejournal.com/222659.html). Someday I will write this AU.)

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 05:29 pm (UTC)(link)
...That is a VERY nice list. :O And you're quite right, if he'd REALLY been wanting things to change, he'd've done that...but again, I really don't think he can get past his own distrust and hatred, so getting others to do so would be nigh on impossible. And there's also the fact that the Jotuns are dangerous, and very hostile towards the Asgardians (which...is understandable all things considered), but then again, the start of the movie shows a Frost Giant attack on Midgard that seems pretty random, so it's not like they're completely blameless either.


But yeah, my thoughts RE: movie!Odin have changed rather a lot just over the past month--before, I was just like YEY ANTHONY HOPKINS LMAO YOU LOOK LIKE A BIG TEDDY BEAR, but...since then I've re-read some of the myths, read some of the comics, and just thought about his role in all this a lot, and now after this discussion...yeeeeeah, I can't really like or justify him in any of this anymore either. :|


[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 06:03 pm (UTC)(link)
I think you're right that Odin is definitely caught up in his own prejudice and assumptions, but he's also in a position to know better in ways that the rest of Asgardian society isn't, and he does pay at least lip service to wanting peace with these people, which is a strange thing to think if he only sees them as monsters. Also, I don't think people necessarily have to remain trapped in their privileges and prejudices, and it should have been Odin's job to educate himself, particularly if he was going to raise a Jotun child.

And yes, it's true the Jotnar aren't blameless either although I could easily see a reading where the whole giants-attacking-Midgard is largely Asgardian propaganda, because let's face it it definitely sounds like a classic bit of propaganda, but even so they're clearly under the boot of Asgard, which...doesn't excuse them, but does lend a different understanding the the situation, especially in terms of colonized mindsets.

I think I would like movie!Odin better if the movie itself had made it clearer that he was flawed, rather than seemingly trying to unironically portray him as a wise and just king. I tend to like flawed characters, when their flaws are acknowledged (as Loki's and Thor's were). Odin never got his moment of truth - he just went into Convenient Odinsleep to avoid it.

(LOL baby klepto Odin. He's all, "Ooh, a baby eight-legged horse, MINE! A baby zombie - the perfect threshold guardian for my new underworld! A baby wolf that I will keep as a pet until it grows so big that I get freaked out and chain it up!" And so on. Lulz.)

Random interjection is random :D;;;

[identity profile] dogmatix-san.livejournal.com 2011-07-14 04:17 am (UTC)(link)
...........er. So, I think this discussion(and you in particular) just jumpstarted a plunnie of mine that I thought I was mostly done with.

Out of curiosity, what do you think could/would have started the Jotunheim-Asgard war? And why the frag would the Jotuns have been on Midgard? (and, if you're okay with it, which I totally understand if you're not, could I use those ideas, with permission and acknowledgement, if they work with my plunnie? I ask because you have such wonderful ideas, but again, if you're not okay with this, totally understandable. *goes off to be socially inept in a corner >_>;; *)

sorry for totally taking over your comments, alory_shannon

[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-14 04:44 am (UTC)(link)
Out of curiosity, what do you think could/would have started the Jotunheim-Asgard war? And why the frag would the Jotuns have been on Midgard?

Ha ha WELL. I actually strongly suspect that Asgard started the war originally, for a couple of reasons: 1) The Asgardians are clearly the dominant people of the Nine Realms, with all the arrogance and unexamined privilege that goes with that. 2) Asgardians seem to have stronger prejudices against the Jotnar than vice versa. Certainly the Jotnar want their Casket back (not surprising, if it is indeed the lifeblood of their world!), and they seem to want revenge against Odin (which, again, is not particularly surprising), but they don't seem to have an ingrained cultural prejudice against Asgardians as such, and they certainly don't seem to have the same dehumanizing rhetoric about Asgardians that the Asgardians have about them. 3) Thor's initial attitude of "I'm Asgardian so I can just waltz in here and do whatever I want, respect for other peoples' sovereignty be damned" seems like it would be a very common one in Asgard. Thor's going off to fight the Frost Giants and it's seen as going on an adventure. Loki, Sif, and the Warriors Three are initially leery of the idea, but only because it's risky and dangerous, not because it's, oh, maybe problematic to go barging into another people's country and pick fights with them for the lulz. (Even if you did catch some of their people trying to steal something from your realm. Something that, you know, actually belongs to them anyway, and that seems to be a priceless cultural artifact, and perhaps more. So. Not really the same as starting a deadly battle for kicks, at all.)

Anyway, not to put too fine a point on it, but I basically see Asgard as the dominant realm which has more or less colonized all the others. (You see this with Midgard at the beginning of the film, with the implication that the Norse cultures were actually based on Asgardian culture - i.e., Asgard basically colonized Midgard and installed their own culture.) Jotunheim, I strongly suspect, was the last hold-out realm, and still the realm that tends to be most rebellious. I also think it's much more likely that the battle between Asgard and Jotunheim just spilled over onto Midgard than it is that the Jotnar were attacking Midgard for the lulz. (As a side note, the Jotnar don't seem to have a way of getting to Asgard without Loki's secret routes. Possibly Midgard is the only other realm they could get to?) However, that probably pretty quickly turned into attacking the humans of Midgard because they were allied with Asgard and clearly buying into Asgardian culture.

Also, I am totally okay with you using any of these ideas! I would love to see some fic about some of these things, and I know myself well enough to realize I will probably never get around to writing it. ;) Plus I just would really like to read someone else's take. Send me a link if you do end up writing something?

Re: sorry for totally taking over your comments, alory_shannon

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-14 05:01 am (UTC)(link)
Ahaha, are you kidding me, I'm loving this. COMMENT AWAY! :Db

Re: sorry for totally taking over your comments, alory_shannon

[identity profile] dogmatix-san.livejournal.com 2011-07-14 05:02 am (UTC)(link)
[sidetrack] Y'know, going purely by the movie, we never see Loki use any means of planet-to-planet travel other than the Bifrost. Ever. In fact, he uses the Bifrost even when it makes Heimdall suspicious, and he doesn't bring the Jotuns in through a secret way, he brings them right in through the Bifrost.

All the Jotun know is that someone in the house of Odin(does that even mean only people related to Odin? Or is it more, the court/clan/people of Odin?) Because later Laufey as much as said he didn't know it was Loki at the beginning("So you're the one").

My bet is on either court intrigue, or, er... well. Frigga.[/sidetrack]

That... seems likely. Maybe Midgard is closer, or a strategically located or something *ponders this* Or very much out in the back of beyond, and so a good first incursion. Will think on this further! :D Thank you! (will definitely credit and link ^__^)

Re: sorry for totally taking over your comments, alory_shannon

[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-14 05:16 am (UTC)(link)
This is a good point! And very possibly a plothole in the story, because it really would have made more sense for him to bring the Jotnar in secretly if he wanted it to seem like an outside assassination attempt. On the other hand, he's also in the middle of a mental and emotional breakdown, so cold logic is unlikely to be the main motivating force of his plans. (But on a meta level I strongly suspect they had the Jotnar come across the Bifrost mainly because they wanted Loki to freeze Heimdall.)

Frigga as a traitor would be....really interesting. Frigga + Loki in court intrigue against Odin = do want!

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-14 07:01 pm (UTC)(link)
...I had something discussion-relevant to say, I think, but now all I can think is LMAO YOUR ICON. That movie...had so many problems both regarding plot and canon; like, it went against mythology AND Marvel-canon, so IDK what they were really doing...? I sort of wanted to hate it...and yet the bar-fight scene was fun (LOVED how Loki trolled Fenrir magically, then went from snickering to OHSHI- to literally hiding behind Thor in the space of about three seconds), the Thor + Loki ~BROTHERLY BROMANCE~ was super-cute & awesome, and at times it was really pretty animation-wise. Like this (http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l550/alory_shannon4/Loki%20and%20Hiddles%20Stuffs%208D/Thor%20Tales%20of%20Asgard%20Screenshots/DAMNthismoviehassomeprettyshots.png) and this (http://i1123.photobucket.com/albums/l550/alory_shannon4/Loki%20and%20Hiddles%20Stuffs%208D/Thor%20Tales%20of%20Asgard%20Screenshots/Fireandtears.png). :3 ...Though I have to say, ANY time Algrim was on screen, I was going DRZZT WHAT ARE YOU DOING IN A MARVEL MOVIE?? But OH, my FAVOURITE SCREENSHOT OF ALL?


Edited 2011-07-14 19:03 (UTC)

this icon is called "lolki"

[identity profile] fialleril.livejournal.com 2011-07-14 08:51 pm (UTC)(link)

So I actually kind of hate this movie tbh, BUT THIS ICON IS SO PERFECT. The only good thing to come out of a trainwreck, really. (Okay, and some of the other screencaps I guess.)


[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-14 07:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Also, "baby klepto" made me think of this, no idea where I found it/who made it, it was years ago:



[identity profile] ununoriginal.livejournal.com 2011-07-13 04:00 am (UTC)(link)
wow, this story really grows and grows on one - i think the world u created for them is fascinating and i'm so very eager to see more of it, as well as the change in thor's behav (hopefully) now tat he's come to some important revelations :)

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-14 07:08 pm (UTC)(link)
Thanks! Glad you're enjoying the story and my AU-verse twists. And yep, Thor will be making an attempt at changing, at least...though that sort of change isn't something that happens overnight, as you'll see in the next chapter. :]
Edited 2011-07-14 19:09 (UTC)

[identity profile] her-ririness-ii.livejournal.com 2011-07-14 05:54 am (UTC)(link)
This fill continues to be the awesome! Rock on, not-anon!
Also, I'm very happy with Odin's parenting here. I'm a bit unhappy with comics canon because he's such a dick and he's such a badass god in mythology. And isn't he supposed to be a god of wisdom, too?! I mean, he had dumb moments, but not as much as in comicsverse. Thanks for making him awesome again!

[identity profile] alory-shannon.livejournal.com 2011-07-15 04:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Thank you! And yeah, Odin's A+ Parenting Guide underwent a revision in this fic, haha. XD There's still room for improvement, but at least he shows that he DOES really care about Loki. I KNOW RIGHT? For someone purportedly super-wise, he made/makes a lot of dumb or at least not well-thought-out decisions...and comics canon Odin REGULARLY makes me want to go around kicking various pieces of furniture, he's such an ass. And thanks again--it's good to know I AM DOIN IT RITE. :D

[identity profile] lrndng.livejournal.com 2011-07-21 05:12 pm (UTC)(link)
Thor needs to be spanked! and I love how devoted Loki is!

[identity profile] miravisu.livejournal.com 2012-02-05 09:01 pm (UTC)(link)
I really like how you mirrored the "No, Loki" comment from the movie, but with a much better and ahem positive reinforcement.

*dives into to the rest of the chapters*